Obama's healthcare plan

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The Public Plan Deception

now, what exactly is the point that little video was supposed to make?

Originally Posted By: unsupervisednow, what exactly is the point that little video was supposed to make? Wow. If you're going to continue commenting on US politics, you should really do a better job of keeping up on things.The point is that, regardless of what the Obama administration tells the public, the idea behind his healthcare system is to go to a single-payer (US government controlled) system. In other words, socialism.

your fear amuses me.

I will state this only once as I don't expect you to understand it.

Public heathcare works

It works here, it works in much of Europe. I would never claim that it's perfect but it works.
Private, for profit heathcare is nothing short of evil.

I have never had to go without healthcare in my life, nor has my son. I have a family doctor that I can see at any time and it's covered. He has in turn recommended me to various specialists over the years, covered. One specialist recommended xrays, a CAT scan and surgery, all covered.
We have 3 full service hospitals and one palliative care hospital in our region. There is no shortage of care. I've been to the emergency department a few times, covered.

We also have a private insurance industry, primamrily running through employment benefits, to pick up where the public system leaves off. That industry is profitable (in fact, obscenely profitable) and in no way suffering due to the public system. No Canadian insurance company required any government bailout during the recession.

There has not been a single argument made against a public system that has held any water. especially your fear of the socialist boogy-man.

The greatest flaw in Obama's proposal is that he is already caving to lobbiests and special interest groups. A "half public" system is doomed to fail.

If you really think that private ownership of public services is the most effective system, then you should call for the privatisation of those commie bastards, the fire department. Good god, even their trucks are red. No where in your constitution is the right to have a fire extinguished mentioned so it's time to get those lazy civil servants off the public teat and make people responsible to pay for their own rescue.

You must have missed the part where the plan here is to eliminate the private industry all together. That can be achieved in many ways...such as taxing it to death. So your comments along the lines of a partial system are truly moot.You must not have watched to whole video...or perhaps just didn't bother listening.As far as your system "working", that depends on who you talk to. Plenty of horror stories about folks waiting years for operations they need right away. Today, they come down here to get it done in situations like that, and pay for it in cash. I think we'll all see just how wonderful your system is should you no longer have that option...which you won't, according to Obama's plans.

I know it's not perfect, I never claimed it was. I just said it works and it does. A small number of people choose other options but there are millions and millions that don't find that necessary.As a matter of fact, the father of the system, Tommy Douglas was recently voted as one of the greatest Canadians in history. So here we are, several generations that has never had to face a private healthcare system and the vast majority of us seem to be pretty happy and healthy

I'm ready for it. For me a $8,000 or maybe it's $9,000 dollar deductible severely limits my ability to get any meaningful health care beyond going in for the flu or something like that.

with deductibles like that, even the insured are essentially uninsured.

It amazes me sometimes how some Americans can't see beyond their borders. Common sense would suggest that if something has been done before in numerous nations, you don't treat it as if it's something new and untried, but you look at how it works elsewhere.The impression I get is that people like thor must think that Americans are quite different people from those who live in the rest of the world, with minds that work differently or something.

But on this one, I have to agree with thor. The gov't could help in the way of assisting with low-middle income families, reducing costs of deductibles/premiums, so on...but I don't think that gov't run health is the way to go.

Take me for example. My repairman, for my chair, he works for his company, and we've stayed with that company, becuase we like the work they do, and my guy takes real good care of all that. Now what happens, when Big Bro comes down and says "Now you have to go to [here]." They could be horrible mechanics, and I'd have no choice in the matter, and end up paying MORE for repairs, than I would for my current repairman, and his companies services right now. And that's something that ESSENTIAL to my living, not just a minor case of the flu that can be cleared up with anti-biotics and ibuprofen. [Given the media doesn't say you have H1N1 :laughing: ]

If the gov't just helped you pay for it, and made insurance companies run the way they SHOULD, you know, actually HELPING, then things could be resolved quicker in the case of waiting lists, and you could see your regular [repairmen], and not have to see Johnny, who's right out of Intro to Autos. I think that's the way to go.

Indeed. Under the Australian system you still can choose your normal doctor on the public system, but not all doctors will be free (it depends on the doctor's choice); you can take out private insurance to cover the extra if you wish.In hospitals you don't have choice, and if you want that you need to take out private insurance. In my experience when it comes to the point you have no way of knowing anyway which specialist in something you have never had to worry about before is better.Effectively these schemes come down to a scheme of universal insurance, which works out cheaper than schemes that the old and sick are more likely to enter. It's no more socialist than having government-run unemployment benefits or old-age pensions.

you somehow think public health would stop you from getting your chair fixed? That's a stretch.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleIt's no more socialist than having government-run unemployment benefits or old-age pensions. or fire department

But what if you where my kid. I couldn't pay to have your chair fixed even though you would be insured. Though my job provides health insurance the only health insurance it provides is a "tax free health insurance savings plan." Sure it's great if you never get sick, you can hide a lot of tax free dollars there and withdraw them when you retire but if you do get sick your screwed. I'll be paying on the cat scans I had last year for the next several years because there's no hope of meeting the deductible unless I go in for surgery or something like that.

Just a small article I read today..  Quote:Majority of Americans Believe Health Care Reform 'Myths'More than 50 percent of Americans believe a public insurance option will increase health care costs, according to a new survey on assertions the White House has called myths. The national survey, conducted from Aug. 14 - 18, involved a random sample of 600 Americans aged 18 and older living in the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C. Respondents indicated whether or not they believed 19 claims about health care reform, each of which is considered a myth by the White House. The results could speak to the current partisan debate on a proposed health care overhaul. While overall the majority of Americans said they believe many of the assertions, more Republicans and Independents than Democrats stood by the claims. "It's perhaps not surprising that more Republicans believe these things than Democrats," said study scientist Dr. Aaron Carroll, director of Indiana University's Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research. "What is surprising is just how many Republicans - and Independents - believe them. If the White House hopes to convince the majority of Americans that they are misinformed about health care reform, there is much work to be done." Among the results on items the White House considers myths: 67 percent of respondents believe that wait times for health care services, such as surgery, will increase (91 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 72 percent of Independents).About five out of 10 believe the federal government will become directly involved in making personal health care decisions (80 percent of Republicans, 25 percent of Democrats, 56 percent of Independents).Roughly six out of 10 Americans believe taxpayers will be required to pay for abortions (78 percent of Republicans, 30 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of Independents) 46 percent believe reforms will result in health care coverage for all illegal immigrants (66 percent of Republicans, 29 percent of Democrats, 43 percent of Independents).54 percent believe the public option will increase premiums for Americans with private health insurance (78 percent of Republicans, 28 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of Independents).Five out of 10 think cuts will be made to Medicare in order to cover more Americans (66 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 44 percent of Independents).There were exceptions. Fewer participants believe "myths" regarding the impact of proposed changes on current health insurance coverage. For instance, less than 30 percent think private insurance coverage will be eliminated. And just 36 percent think a public insurance option will put private insurance companies out of business. In addition, only three out of 10 respondents believe the government will require the elderly to make decisions about how and when they will die. Keyword... Myths.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfJust a small article I read today..Keyword... Myths. Yeah...according to the White House.Keyword: Propaganda.The desire of some Obama supporters to believe in their savior outweighs all other considerations, including reality.

I would take their word with more authority than some conspiracy theory nut job... but hey that's just me.

Originally Posted By: NtroducingMyselfI would take their word with more authority than some conspiracy theory nut job... but hey that's just me. You'd take their word over something that was right in front of your face....and yes, that is just you.

Wow Thor.. you are seriously a piece of work, and no that is not a compliment.The problem is, yet again, people throwing out Scare Tactics to scare the county away from moving forward. What’s sad is gullible people like yourself that eat it up then spew it out on everyone else.

Its done all teh time Eddie.Has anyone besides me actually bothered to go to the website and read the mother fucker?140 some odd pages of shit to sift through.