Stigmata

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Pray for his mortal soul! He's a witch!

/sigh at last I am done because you will twist and turn everything I say just to TRY (Which you are doing pitifully) to prove your point. It's silly of me to think I could even try and be rational with you. You called my grandmother silly and/or a child. So at this part of the debate I am done once name calling and ignorance starts.I just find it sad Steve than people here respect the fact you are an atheist, can you not respect the fact that we are Christians and we have our beliefs as well? I understand that out in the real world there are Christians that want to throw it in your face. But here on these boards, in THIS community.. can you not respect us as we respect you?

Any time you say, "My religion is X", you're also implying "and you are wrong if your religion is not X". If you believe that Jesus is that savior, then you're saying that the Jew, Moslems, and Hindus are wrong. What does it mean if you're say, "I respect your beliefs, but you're wrong"? They all think that you are wrong, and you think that they are wrong.Or are you saying that they're right? Then you must be wrong. We're not talking about favorite colors here. Either Jesus is the supernatural being that you say he is, or he's not.I'm not twisting anything. You are not answering the question about prayer. Bringing the angel argument into the discussion about prayer did nothing to clarify the prayer issue.You claim that your prayers were answered, which meant that God ended your grandfather's suffering because you prayed. Do you agree with that statement? I'll keep it simple and not introduce other prayer issues here.

No its not like that AT ALL

Im lutheran.. I went to a catholic school.. This guy I'm seeing is Muslim..

In reply to:

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Any time you say, "My religion is X", you're also implying "and you are wrong if your religion is not X".

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If i was telling you that your religion was wrong.. instead of stating my own personal beliefs i would say .. My religion is the only religion..

It IS true.. evenever someone doesnt have the same beliefs as you.. you turn it around to make them look like an idiot.. that's what bothers me so much about you.. Ive been raised and have believed in these things my WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE. Who are you to tell me that IM wrong and twist everyhing i say?

I'm not sure what I'm twisting, since I haven't really said anything to you yet.Lifelong beliefs are not always right. For example, some people have been brought up with racist ideas, and believe them completely their whole lives. If you spent a lifetime thinking that 1 + 3 = 6, that wouln't make it correct.> If i was telling you that your religion was wrongIf you're telling me that Jesus is the messiah discussed in the Old Testament, and Jews and Moslems disagree with you, are you not telling them that they are wrong? Are they not telling you that you are wrong?They are. Perhaps they are more polite than I am. But that just obfuscates the truth.Fundamentalist Chirstians believe that the only way into heaven is through acceptance of Jesus as one's personal savoir (John 3:18, etc.). Everyone else, including the Jews and Moslems, will suffer in hell for eternity. Do you respect the views of the fundamentalist Christians?

Any time you say, "My religion is X", you're also implying "and you are wrong if your religion is not X". If you believe that Jesus is that savior, then you're saying that the Jew, Moslems, and Hindus are wrong. What does it mean if you're say, "I respect your beliefs, but you're wrong"? They all think that you are wrong, and you think that they are wrong.I am?? News to my Steve. You misjudged me Steve big time. I might be an odd one out here but I see nothing wrong with all religions (well might want to excluse satanism lol). I have always said I think God showed himself differently to all nations according to their stuctures. To the Native Americns it might have been through nature, you get my point. Last thing I would ever think, let alone say, is mine religion is right and someone else's is wrong. Who am I to judge? >I'm not twisting anything. You are not answering the question about prayer. Bringing the angel argument into the discussion about prayer did nothing to clarify the prayer issue.Problem is Steve you do twist things. You turn things around and do you best to try and make the other person look like an idiot, we're all used to that by now. but reguardless it's old. We were having a decent discussion and debate and than you decided to resort to name calling. That's when I draw my line with you because at that point it's mute. (Been using that word a lot lately, huh? lol)>You claim that your prayers were answered, which meant that God ended your grandfather's suffering because you prayed. Do you agree with that statement?To a point yes. I think God did answer our prayers. My grandfather was a fighter (Hence how he made it through so much). He didn't want to die because he loved us so much. Though we din't want to lose him we wanted his pain to end because it hurt us. It's not an easy thing to explain Steve, esp to someone who does not believe because reguardless what i sau it's non-sense to you but to those here who are like myself know what I am talking about.

He's a witch! nothing wrong with that

I see nothing wrong with all religions (well might want to excluse satanismI see. I'm not sure what the issue is with Satanism.> I think God showed himself differently to all nations according to their stuctures. The fudamentalist Christians who have a literal belief in the Bible, including John 3:18, are either right or they're wrong. Either you agree with them that HelmsmaN will exist in eternal torment in the afterlife, or you don't. If you weasel out of answering this question again, don't accuse me of twisting anything.Speaking of which, this twisting thing is getting old. If you won't answer a question directly (and giving an example, like your grandfather's case, is not a direct answer), and if you say things that don't follow logically, and contradict each other, then your argument collapses under its own weight.Getting back to your grandfather, you're saying then that God had a hand in his death? If you didn't pray, then God would have let him go on suffering? Would more people praying make it happen more quickly (the prayer circle issue)?And once again, what about all of the people who are suffering, but have no one to pray for them? Do they suffer longer or harder? If not, then does prayer only serve the people who are doing the praying?This is the quality of argument people get into when debating prayer in school, evolution, intelligent design, etc. There's a case in Pennsylvania that's on its way to the Supreme Court over this kind of thing. That case alone will cost the local taxpayers severl million dollars in legal expenses. Cases like that keep popping up in religiously conservative areas. Science education is being subordianted to religious beliefs, and eventually we're going to buy all of our technology and advanced medicine from the Far East, while the kids here get their religious education.And you wonder why I'm concerned.

I lived near Salem and Danvers, Massachusetts for a while, close to where alleged witches were burned a few hundred years ago. The Chistians there were not very tolerant at the time.

I am not answering anything because I have answered your questions, you just disliked the answers I gave. Not everything will revolve around you and give you answers you like. Accept what is given, take it or leave it.I no longer feel sorry for you that in society you have to deal with christiams pushing their views on you, because you push your views on others. You deserve every ounce you get in my book. Also I never want to hear you bitch about having to deal with religions because you bring them up to bash Christians every chance you get.Point blank, you don't have to believe in religion but don't bash it either. Again we have no issues with you being athiest here, you should respect us equally that we DO believe in God (Or whatever religion other believe in).Something things in life Steve have no explination, they just are. Either you believe or you don't. I believe you don't..so what? Am I wrong or are you wrong? Who cares? Believe what you want.. but don't judge other who don't believe life you. Makes you look like an ass.Also logic is all within one self Because logically to you Angels don't exist, doesn't mean the person next to you doens't believes in them. You talk about logic all the time on here Steve, but you use YOUR logic. Again the word doesn't revolve around your beliefs and your "logics". Open your eyes Steve, there's a whole world out there.

I have answered your questions, you just disliked the answers I gave.I disliked your non-answers, just like I dislike politicians' non-answers. You never answered the questions about what you think would have happened to your grandfather if no one prayed for him, or if fewer people prayed for him. You never answered the question about fundamentalist Christians.> Not everything will revolve around you and give you answers you like.All I'm looking for is a straight answer. You don't have to do it for me...just do it.> Accept what is given, take it or leave it.Why? And why, then, do you keep responding to me? Why can't you just accept what I say?> You deserve every ounce you get in my book.I want to be there, in the future, when you get really sick, and the only doctors you'll be able to find around here has a bag of magic dust and dead chickens. I'll have to then help you figure out what country you'll need to go to for treatment. I'm betting on India, Thailand, or Singapore.The issue is not that people are burning down my house because my religion is incorrect (although such things have happened). The problem is what it does to society at large. It's not good. Who did the president consult with before he decided to go war in Iraq? He said it wasn't his own father (who actually had experience in the area), but a "higher Father". And here we are, with 2100 hundred dead, and thousands and thousands of crippling injuries later...and counting. Tens of thousands of Moslems were killed as well, if anyone cares.A lot of people voted based on their idea of the candidates' religious beliefs, and here we are.> Also I never want to hear you bitch about having to deal with religions because you bring them up to bash Christians every chance you get.Not true. I'll happily bash all irrational belief, especially the destructive ones (we all must prioritize; even God does, apparently).> Point blank, you don't have to believe in religion but don't bash it either.Why not? Religion by and large is absurd, and often very destructive. Isn't there enough of a historical record to demonstrate that?> Again we have no issues with you being athiest hereWell, you're a very nice person.> Something things in life Steve have no explination, they just are. Either you believe or you don't. I believe you don't..so what? Am I wrong or are you wrong?You're wrong. Some things have no explanation, and should be left as such, unless and until a rational explanation is found. Making stuff up to explain things doesn't really get us very far, although it might make us feel better.> Who cares? Believe what you want..You sure seem to.> but don't judge other who don't believe life you. I can't judge their beliefs? Sure I can. You, in fact, do it all the time. Everyone does.> Makes you look like an ass.Hey, who's name-calling around here? You keep doing that, and then you complain to me for name-calling.> Also logic is all within one self Because logically to you Angels don't exist, doesn't mean the person next to you doens't believes in them. You talk about logic all the time on here Steve, but you use YOUR logic. Again the word doesn't revolve around your beliefs and your "logics". Open your eyes Steve, there's a whole world out there.There's no "my logic" or "your logic". If you turn in a math test, and the teacher marks something off, do you tell her, "That's according to your math; according to my math, it's correct"? You really, really need to learn more about formal and informal logic before you use the word.Belief in angels and God is outside of the realm of formal logic. Sorry, St. Augustine.But if you believe in angels, then the barn door is open, and anything goes.> logic is all within one selfI've mentioned the word "solipsism" to you a couple of times already. Have you looked it up? It appears to be at the root of your world view.

Got a problem with jews?No (I didn't even know that Adam Sandler is a jew)! I just don't like his acting... I really believe he must be the worst comedian in Hollywood right now. Anyway, I haven't seen any good comedy recently, and I'm pissed off!! :PBTW, I'm not a lady! But, you can be easily confused with my nickname. Anyway, this is not a big deal!

Just kiddin, anyways if you want a good comedy watch hitchhikers guide tothe galaxy

PLZ don't remind me this!
I've just rented this DVD and it was already completely destoyed (like it's melted!)
aawwwww... too bad!!!!!!

Anyway, I'll be the bad guy again! Plz stop arguing about religion and believes. We have totally ruined this thread and for actually no reason. Try creating a new thread about religion and the reasons why someone believes in God. Then, I'll express also my opinion for this topic.

Are there Jews in that?

Are there Jews in space?

Course, we're taking it over in our attempt to destroy the evil jesus bible thumpers

Is that the sequel to The Passion?

Awww please, you're all like this episode of "South Park" -> "The passion of the Jew".I haven't watched this movie and I really don't care :P

Exactly, we're planning on including MORE blood and hitler, whats a good movie with out hitler, and the new nazi pope and everything