well fair enough, however, i think that f22 will agree w me on this one. it is interesting to try and figure out where another person (who is soo strong willed)'s beliefs come from and vise versa. hence why f22 posted specific questions for me to answer and continue on.
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The religious debate from male genetalia area con
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If anybody entered this debate thinking they could actually change someones view point on life, they were ignorent. I just enjoy haveing conversation with people of diff beliefs. Someone somewhere may have there life changed by and internet forum, but i was under the impression that this was a disussion forum. The nice thing about the internet is u can nevr heat your opponet yell. It gives people the oppurtunity to see through the eye of other beliefs. There is nothing i could say to change him, and vise versa. Im sure we wish the other person might, or in my case pray about it, but no party will ever convince another party to change, if niether is willing to change. I dont mind having a fun conversation with someone else, as long as we know thats what it is. If either person was not in someway enjoying the conversation, then they probly dont have the same passion as other people. nothing wrong with that, just a diff in what one may find interesting.
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I think it's interesting. Big change from "Is my penis too small?" threads.
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In reply to: anybody entered this debate thinking they could actually change someones view point on life, they were ignorent. I just enjoy haveing conversation with people of diff beliefs. Someone somewhere may have there life changed by and internet forum, but i was under the impression that this was a disussion forum. The nice thing about the internet is u can nevr heat your opponet yell. It gives people the oppurtunity to see through the eye of other beliefs. There is nothing i could say to change him, and vise versa. Im sure we wish the other person might, or in my case pray about it, but no party will ever convince another party to change, if niether is willing to change. I dont mind having a fun conversation with someone else, as long as we know thats what it is. If either person was not in someway enjoying the conversation, then they probly dont have the same passion as other people. nothing wrong with that, just a diff in what one may find interesting. oh shut up and learn how to type
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But it takes so much time. Learning to type and stuff. Id rather just watch the simpsons.
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I have to ask this one question, because this is the only part of a large number of monotheistic religions that I hate. When a person says that god is giving his love, and others, who may believe in a different god, are just refusing to accept that love and that's why their souls are damned, they seem so sure that their way is right over the other person's. The other person may feel exactly the same way except coming from the other side. It's the stupidest thing, two people, both believing that their religion is the one that is absolute, both believing the other is damned because of their refusal to accept the greater being that they believe in.Myself, I'm not sure what to believe in. I don't know whether or not to believe that there's something greater in this world, something that we can discover through ourselves. I agree that there are holes in many scientific theories dealing with ideas of things far in the past, and I think that there's way too much unknown for anyone to call their theory/belief on the creation of life and the universe (this goes for science and religion) anything more than a theory or belief rather than "the way things happened". I enjoy the fact of not knowing, and thinking of how no one truly knows what's out there and what's past our field of vision, although many of us believe in one thing or anything. I love thinking about how small we are and how much opportunity lay before us as human beings. My belief is that people need to be more considerative and speculative about what they take to be fact rather than their own belief, but maybe that's just me. Looking at what I said, I guess my point is that I'm far from being a fundamentalist, as that's a view I believe (sorry for emphasizing this, just trying to make a point) to hold people back from discovering the real, the different, and speculating about what could be.
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In reply to:
But it takes so much time. Learning to type and stuff. Id rather just watch the simpsons
good answer! :smile:
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In reply to:
I have to ask this one question, because this is the only part of a large number of monotheistic religions that I hate. When a person says that god is giving his love, and others, who may believe in a different god, are just refusing to accept that love and that's why their souls are damned, they seem so sure that their way is right over the other person's. The other person may feel exactly the same way except coming from the other side. It's the stupidest thing, two people, both believing that their religion is the one that is absolute, both believing the other is damned because of their refusal to accept the greater being that they believe in.
Myself, I'm not sure what to believe in. I don't know whether or not to believe that there's something greater in this world, something that we can discover through ourselves. I agree that there are holes in many scientific theories dealing with ideas of things far in the past, and I think that there's way too much unknown for anyone to call their theory/belief on the creation of life and the universe (this goes for science and religion) anything more than a theory or belief rather than "the way things happened". I enjoy the fact of not knowing, and thinking of how no one truly *knows* what's out there and what's past our field of vision, although many of us believe in one thing or anything. I love thinking about how small we are and how much opportunity lay before us as human beings. My *belief* is that people need to be more considerative and speculative about what they take to be fact rather than their own *belief*, but maybe that's just me. Looking at what I said, I guess my point is that I'm far from being a fundamentalist, as that's a view I *believe* (sorry for emphasizing this, just trying to make a point) to hold people back from discovering the real, the different, and speculating about what could be.
first off, you didn't really ask a question, and second, that's a very lucid, thought out response, which makes it very difficult to get in an arguement w you and that makes Last very angry. :angry: heh heh
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I'll take that as a compliment, lol As far as not asking a question goes, I was just sharing my thoughts. I didn't have a strong purpose in mind.
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nice...well looks as though f22 isn't coming back to finish this , so me guessing it's dead. aw...i am all sad now.
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Man, I’m gone for a few days and you assume I’m gone forever. I do have other priorities, you know.In reply to: you have EVERYTHING figured out.... twat. I read this, and remembered seeing that word somewhere else, but I couldn’t quite place my finger on it…Well, after thinking for a while, I finally remembered!In a thread entitled “Cocaine”---posted by Last:"going on 7 years now. 4 of which was every single day. not to the point of 'messed' up, but still at least a line a day...[it] can make sex fun though - body lines are wicked. (you know, she snorts off your member, and you snort off her twat)"Well I became curious at your different uses of the word and looked it up:1: a man who is a stupid incompetent fool 2: obscene term for female genitalsThis isn’t in any way relevant to anything, I just found it interesting…and I learned a new word today!In reply to: oh, and quoting something out of the bible doesn't prove your point at all if the person your are quoting it to doesn't believe in the bible. Last, regardless of whether or not you ‘believe in the bible’ it exists and the sayings and teachings inside it exist. I wasn’t quoting that scripture to demonstrate a scientific fact. YOU said ‘according to the bible, that is wrong’ I was merely showing your error as to what the bible teaches. It was a morality/religious issue, not a scientific issue. Regardless of whether you accept the bible as fact or not, 1) don’t misquote it 2) don’t use it for your own points if you don’t believe it in the first place and 3) its a story that’s in there that portrays the beliefs of ChristiansIn reply to: I would be very interested in hearing how one would go about connecting himself that closely with the devil. Some people attempt to connect with satan directly by choice. There are groups of people that even worship him as greater than God. However, that’s not always the case. Sometimes satan just enters into people to use to carry out his own will.In reply to: I am persucuting you this very moment, I don't see peopel flocking to your church. First off, your attempt at persecution is the worst I’ve ever seen. I’ve experienced much worse myself. Read a book called Jesus Freaks to get a feel for some major persecution.Secondly, maybe you don’t see people ‘flocking’ This is due in part to the fact that you can’t read my private messages or emails or listen to my personal conversations. Not only has this thread convinced some people to evaluate the evidence for Christianity themselves and led them to better see the truth (the truth being Christianity), but several other people who are already Christians have been strengthened in their faith by once again having their views reaffirmed by scientific fact.In reply to: for all you know, Jesus could have been the very first doctor, and these 'miracles' were only his medicine healing people, which of course got passed down through the ages and mixed up. 1) Jesus wasn’t the first doctor, there were many before him documented in history. One in particular was Luke, the writer of a gospel and the book of Acts. He was a doctor. There were also many other doctors in MANY other civilizations2) Jesus did much more than heal people’s physical and mental illnesses. Why don’t you check out the other side for yourself before you try to define it, hm?In reply to: they only teach you what they want you to know. otherwise you would see the holes for yourself. First of all, we study scriptures VERY in depth, and our professors don’t tell us what to read and what not to.Second of all, a lot of what I’ve learned hasn’t even been in college it’s been in my own studies. Try one of those then.In reply to: where the hell are the atheist churchs that repeat the same thing over and over every sunday? do you even know how brainwashing works? Schools that teach evolution as fact to eager young minds is not exactly what I would call healthy. That’s a major way today’s society is brainwashed. Also when the major forms of media only tell you what THEY want you to know, like saying that certain things happened millions of years ago when there’s no way to prove it. Most people don’t care to find things out on their own and believe whatever they’re told. I for one choose to check for myself in personal studies.In reply to: you my friend, avoided the questions. I said it's impossible for god to just 'appear' and be there forever God created time. Your concept of ‘forever’ doesn’t apply to Him. And yes, I DID answer that question earlier.In reply to: ok, that is sooooo closed minded. how can you guarentee it. because of somethign the bible says? I’m starting to think you don’t even read what I say. I can’t 100% absolutely guarantee it. BUT, notice I used science and probability statistics to back up what the bible says. Sorry if believing something that IS a fact is close minded.In reply to: good for him, when you see (hahahahahahahah) him again, tell him I said 'go fk yourself!' I’ll let you tell him, but hopefully it doesn’t come to thatIn reply to: how dare you place homosexuality along the same lines as stealing, lying and murder. there is positively nothing wrong w queers. they have every right to live as your sorry a. All of those are against God’s law, and all are equally bad. As I already said, all men are sinners when put against God’s perfect standards, which is why we need a savior. I’m just as much of a sinner as every other person who’s ever walked the earth, and agree that all others have just as much right to live as I do. However, because of our sin, we all deserve only death, and the only way around it is to accept Jesus’ perfect sacrifice for our atonement.I have no clue of what you mean by ‘the food chain of God’ God wants us to have the best we possibly can have, and hes given us the means to get it (Jesus) In reply to: no you don't. or you wouldn't feel the need to pray for me. or say things like "certain lifestyle traits like homosexuality, lying, stealing and murdering" that obviously says homosexuals are horrible people. I’m not going to keep pounding a nail that’s already been driven. ALL people are ‘horrible’ All sin is equally bad, and all men have sinned.I don’t pray for you because I think less of you than I do anybody else. I pray for a lot of people, those that I don’t even know, my best friends, and people who need, not even necessarily want, but need God’s help. I pray for people that I have great respect and love for.In reply to: I agree. and I really don't feel I need to. I think it is common sense that god doesn't exist. In reply to: I find it rather funny that often times atheist's accuse christians of not using any facts in there arguments, but in this debate it would apear to be quite the opposite. Common sense implies universal knowledge, which implies an obvious fact. SHOW ME your FACTSIn reply to: anyone who can think straight and see what is in reality Anyway, I’m starting to agree with the others. Last, its very hard to debate people who have no beliefs of their own and only say everything else is wrong…especially when they can’t back up the belief that everything else is wrong using facts. I at least have given evidence for what I believe, and I at least have something to debate.If you want this to go any further, please explain what you believe, AND (not ‘or,’ or ‘instead of’) SCIENTIFIC reasons you do not agree that Christianity could be true.In reply to: well, c stands for christianity, so I had c stricken from the alphabet I’m not going to sit here and do this if you just have a personal vendetta against Christianity that you can’t back up
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In reply to: 3) its a story that’s in there that portrays the beliefs of Christians exactly. you said it right my friend. it's a STORY that portrays BELIEFS of christians. bingo! In reply to: and led them to better see the truth (the truth being Christianity), but several other people who are already Christians have been strengthened in their faith by once again having their views reaffirmed by scientific fact hmm...this sounds a bit too close to jehovahs witnesses beliefs. you wouldn't happen to be one of them would you? also: who are you to say that your sole religion is 'the truth' the truth would indicate that it's the sole right religion. you cannot with any degree of force say that it is THE sole religion. In reply to: I’ll let you tell him, but hopefully it doesn’t come to that you are much too late for that my friend. In reply to: All of those are against God’s law, and all are equally bad. then god is wrong. an 'all-loving' god would definitely not include being against a certain group of people simply because of their sexual preference. that is just as bad as hitler saying only blonde hair, blue eyed people are pure. you are siding with someone that is racist (in a way), how do you feel about that? In reply to: Anyway, I’m starting to agree with the others. Last, its very hard to debate people who have no beliefs of their own and only say everything else is wrong…especially when they can’t back up the belief that everything else is wrong using facts. I at least have given evidence for what I believe, and I at least have something to debate.If you want this to go any further, please explain what you believe, AND (not ‘or,’ or ‘instead of’) SCIENTIFIC reasons you do not agree that Christianity could be true i do have my own beliefs, because it is a BELIEF, and not fact, i don't feel comfortable replying with facts given that what i believe is common sense. i will not try and deter you with irrelevant facts that may be taken from a source that i feel is right, when in actuality it may be wrong. this is what you do. you may have provided 'fact's' persay, but, how am i too know that this information isn't simply taken from your watchtower or awake or your bible. things change depending on religion, that doesn't necessarily make them so. and it certainly doesn't mean that your religious group doesn't tweek them slightly for your own benefit. In reply to: I’m not going to sit here and do this if you just have a personal vendetta against Christianity that you can’t back up as said earlier, i dont' need to back it up. it's common sense. i readily admit, perhaps i don't have all the facts to securely disprove your god, but i don't feel i need to have them either. as i also said, common sense and the equality of man alone tell me god, or your god, is wrong. the single statement that homosexuality is against god's law is proof enough of that. if in fact god does exist, i for one would never be friends with/serve/worship someoone who is soo obviously a racist against others who have a different sexual preference. and that is an obvious contradiction in your bible. i know for a FACT, it says that god is all-loving and forgiving. well, where is his love for homos? if he IS all-loving, why is he saying something like 'homosexuality is wrong'. nope, that just don't add up. all-loving would indicate that he accepts EVERYONE for who they are and who they are screwing.
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and with all these posts, how are we not on page 3 yet???
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lol can't say I've read any of these lol
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#1 why are you getting uptight over these posts? Why are you even reading them? I don't.
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In reply to:Not only has this thread convinced some people to evaluate the evidence for Christianity themselves and led them to better see the truth (the truth being Christianity), It's statements like this that make me side with Last. As I said before, I'm against fundamentalism and the idea that a person can outright deny that there's just as much truth behind the beliefs of others as there is in their own. What you see in the Bible is your beliefs, and I respect them (mostly, unfortunately the reason I can't have total respect is because I don't believe that non-believers are damned and homesexuals are damned). Before you go saying that your way is the "truth", why can't you try to respect the idea that what I stand for has just as much truth as what you stand for.As Last said, Hitler persecuted just as Christianity persecutes. If I were to follow Hitler's beliefs, then most people wouldn't understand. If I were to discriminate against homosexuals instead of Jews, as a Christian, then it would be not only accepted, but encouraged by many other strong believers. That is what sickens me, and I'm sorry, but I can't personally accept a religion to be the truth when its fundamental beliefs go against its very beliefs of loving all people equally.
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In reply to: It's statements like this that make me side with Last. As I said before, I'm against fundamentalism and the idea that a person can outright deny that there's just as much truth behind the beliefs of others as there is in their own. What you see in the Bible is your beliefs, and I respect them (mostly, unfortunately the reason I can't have total respect is because I don't believe that non-believers are damned and homesexuals are damned). Before you go saying that your way is the "truth", why can't you try to respect the idea that what I stand for has just as much truth as what you stand for.As Last said, Hitler persecuted just as Christianity persecutes. If I were to follow Hitler's beliefs, then most people wouldn't understand. If I were to discriminate against homosexuals instead of Jews, as a Christian, then it would be not only accepted, but encouraged by many other strong believers. That is what sickens me, and I'm sorry, but I can't personally accept a religion to be the truth when its fundamental beliefs go against its very beliefs of loving all people equally robbob, you are the man. nice to see at least one person understand where i am coming from. that is my exact point!
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Robbob, judging from your post in both sites, I'd say you sound really intelligent and can tell you like to put thought into what you say, unlike Last who, whether I say something new or something already said, uses the same response and continues to drone on with no rhyme or reason like a broken record. If I may ask, in relation to my post about it on the other site, what precisely do you believe in and why?
But in response to that post in particular:
In reply to:
I'm against fundamentalism and the idea that a person can outright deny that there's just as much truth behind the beliefs of others as there is in their own.
Nobody's shown me any verifiable evidence to lead me to believe anything else. There have been some good theories and beliefs brought to my attention, which are in some cases just as valid as neither can be proven, however, as for what IS proven, or can be backed up scientifically (efficiently), Christianity in my opinion takes the lead. I also didn't mean that christians are the only people who are beneficial to society. There are many moral belief systems, and I can admit that there are a lot of atheists (among other religions) that show more efforts to benefit society, and outdo a lot of christians. I just do my best to do my part for society. And Last, don't you dare say that my contribution to society would be suicide.
As for comparing christians to Hitler, how dare you. Hitler 1) was crazy and 2) persecuted people based mostly on their genetic makeup and things they couldn't help.
In reply to:
If I were to discriminate against homosexuals instead of Jews, as a Christian, then it would be not only accepted, but encouraged by many other strong believers
If you set out on a crusade to kill all homosexuals I would NOT support you. I've already stated that I believe they have just as much right to live as anyone else. Also, another difference is if you DID set out to kill all homosexuals, you wouldn't be able to, because non-homosexual parents can give birth to someone that decides to be homosexual when they are older. In Mein Kampf Hitler made it absolutely clear that he had a deep hatred of the Jewish race. "Race" is genetic. Non-racially jewish parents could not give birth to Jewish kids.
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In reply to: Before you go saying that your way is the "truth", Quoting the bible will probly mean little to you, but i believe it was Jesus who said "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me." John 14:6 In reply to: why can't you try to respect the idea that what I stand for has just as much truth as what you stand for. I respect you as person, but my "idea" states that there is only one truth. And you cant accept both of our views as truth, they contradict eachother. So how can expect me to accept what u belive as truth as well as what i believe. Thats like taking a red balloon that i say is red and you say is yellow. Can we accept them both as truth? no, the balloon is red. We have to accept one "truth", regardless of what your "truth" is. I believe mine to be right, and you believe yours to be right. You cant accept both, it's impossible. "The funny thing about truth is that ist true wheather you belive it or not." One Time Blind. In reply to: As Last said, Hitler persecuted just as Christianity persecutes. When was the last time you heard about a family of Muslims being steamrolled by a group of radical Christians. I didnt think so. And dont bother bringing up the crusades, the church was sick then. This being a contributor to the protestant reformation. Do a search of persecution on yahoo, theres a reason nearly all the sites lead to Christian persecution. Worldwide, Christianity is the most persecuted religion on the planet. For whatever you choose to do with this advice, read Jesus freaks, Its book of nothing but persecutions stories. Be aware there is two of them. would you like me to site more of the hundreds of acounts of persecution. Cause ill do it. In reply to: If I were to discriminate against homosexuals instead of Jews, as a Christian Excuse me, please tell me the last time that Christians killed millions of homosexuals becasue they were homesexual. I got another task for you, look up exodus.to/default2.asp on the net. Every person on this planet is human, and personally i would like to see as many of them in the kingdom of Heaven as possible. You should read the testimony of an ex- homosexual, and his or her conversion to Christianinty, it can be rather compelling. In reply to: but I can't personally accept a religion to be the truth when its fundamental beliefs go against its very beliefs of loving all people equally Amen brother, niehter could I. Granted it is hard to love everybody, but me and my comrades seem to manage. I have more secular friends than Christian, after all who need to hear the word more than those who havent yet heard it.
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are all the fundamentalist christians on here jehovahs witnesses or what??? jeeeezzzzzussssss. (more responses later, but gotta do my close at work and get outta here!)