Continuation of the Founding Fathers debate...

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How do you mean?

Originally Posted By: Rad Originally Posted By: thorConservatives focus on society as a whole, while liberals are generally focussed on the individual. Does anyone agree with this statement? I can't think of a more absurd statement than that nor of one that could be farther from any semblance of reality.

Originally Posted By: Thoughtful Originally Posted By: Rad Originally Posted By: thorConservatives focus on society as a whole, while liberals are generally focussed on the individual. Does anyone agree with this statement? I can't think of a more absurd statement than that nor of one that could be farther from any semblance of reality. ...and another liberal has been identified...

as you critisize liberals as being socialists an as Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation (Wikipedia)...
Do you not see the contradictions in your statement?

In theory, yes. In practice, no.Liberalism in this country caters mainly to special interest groups...not the general public. And socialism, in this country, is merely a carrot to wave under the nose of the liberals to get them to release power to the central government...a tool as a means to an end; that end NOT being socialism. Why do you think the majority of states here are currently chartering legislation that is centered upon emphasizing their soveriengty according to the Constitution? It's in direct response to a federal government that is out of control and seeking more power unto itself. What's the difference between socialism and fascism?

I imagine the small-government and libertarian conservatives might also disagree with your classification, thor.The difference between socialism and fascism is that socialism seeks to use the State to create equality of wealth between individual people, while fascism sees the State as a sort of superorganism that is more important than individual people. Socialism is driven by a sense that it is unjust that some people are rich and some poor, and this should be combatted by collective laws; fascism is driven by a vision of achievements and glory for the state, especially in combat against other states. In fascism the welfare of individuals is important only insofar as it helps the state achieve its goals.

well sure, if you're trying to protect the traditional definition of socialism and the traditional definition of fascism

Originally Posted By: RadOK. I did find some references to "legislation that claims their 10th Amendment rights are valid and enforceable."You think this will be as useful as naming an official state insect? With 28 of 50 states introducing such legislation, I'd say a bit more useful. One or two states, no big deal. The majority of them? Very big deal.

Originally Posted By: bobalicious

How do you mean?
I feel like a lot of these discussions, particularly involving certain people, boil down to person A making a statement and then person B making a reply and there really not being the initial disagreement it first appears there is, but because of who person A and person B are, statements are made to/about the person instead of the actual core content of the statement made.

There...confusing enough?
:wink:

I'm offended! I always argue the points made, be they A, B or D!

Originally Posted By: thor

An example of an idea taken from the Bible and then incorporated into our government is found in Isaiah 33:22 which says, "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king..." The founding fathers took this scripture and made three major branches in our government: judicial, legislative, and executive.

The founding fathers made two major branches in our government. The Judicial branch didn't get on equal footing with the other two till later.

if the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king, why do you need those branches of government anyway?

Originally Posted By: unsupervisedif the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king, why do you need those branches of government anyway? For one thing, because folks just like you will always exist...folks who refuse to acknowledge or follow Christ.The reality is that Christianity directly involves spiritual matters. While this has an effect on corporeal matters, it does not cover all the bases. For example, it doesn't cover traffic laws. It is up to us to decide how such matters are resolved.

people like me?people who do the right thing, not for fear of persicution in this life or the next, but because it is the right thing?I don't think we're the problem.

IF all this is so then why do the Christians refuse to follow all of gods rules? They directly disobey them often and one always and try to shit on me for following it.

What is the Word of God on the Cannabis plant?

The hemp plant (scientific name: cannabis, slang: marijuana) is one of the many useful herbs "yielding seed after its kind" created and blessed by God on the third day of creation, "and God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:12) He gave hemp for people to use with our free will.

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth....To you it will be for meat." ... And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31) The Bible predicts some herb's prohibition. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall ... speak lies in hypocrisy ... commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

The Bible speaks of a special plant. "I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more." (Ezekiel 34:29) A healing plant. On either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare 12 manner of fruits, and yielding her fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Revelations 22:1-2) A gift from God.
How was cannabis used in Biblical times and lands?

Cannabis was used 12 ways: clothing, paper, cord, sails, fishnet, oil, sealant, incense, food, and in ceremony, relaxation and medicine. For so the Lord said unto me, "I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs. For afore harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches." (Isaiah 18:4-5)

Know what your JC said about the war on weed?

Blessed are the peacemakers. (Matthew 5:9)

It was God who created cannabis hemp and told mankind to use "every green herb" on Earth. The Bible speaks of mercy, healing and a persecution of God's children.

They persecute me wrongfully; help thou me. (Psalms 119:86)
Prisons and drug wars do not save souls.

The Lord... hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. (Isaiah 61:1)

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Some more hypocritical shit....**

Jesus said to keep church and state apart. "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God the things which be God's." (Luke 20:25) As we have seen, it was God, not government, who gave man the herbs to use. And it was government that put Jesus to death.

So the bibles take on it all, the christian thing to do?
What does the Bible say about marijuana?

The Bible says that God created hemp for people to use "as meat," (ie, to consume), that its seed oil is to be used as an ointment, and that cannabis is "to be received with thanks-giving of them which believe and know the truth." Paul also warned that some people would "speak lies in hypocrisy" and prohibit us from using it.

It also says that we "shall not bear false witness" about people who use cannabis, nor judge them because that judgement is reserved to the Lord. The Lord hates those who speak lies and sow discord among brethern. For those people harrassed and imprisoned for using cannabis rightfuly, Jesus offers these words of comfort, "Blessed are those persecuted for righteousness's sake: For theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

All this shit in the bible, the written word of god, teh laws and commandments, yet you fucking christians continue to persecute us for using it for drinking for smoking for swearing for any fucking thing you can to inflict your morally right ways on us. Your ways are not what your god preached, not what your gos son preached, I think you have lost touch with your home base.
Me, an atheist, has a closer objective and morality to your original source for lifes guidance, than you christians, backed by your god while you twist the words and verses and spit out your own corrupted morals based on bullshit and lies.
Judge not lest ye be judged, turn the other cheek, follow the bible! well all the bible but this shit over here, we do not like this shit, tis bad and evil and the government said so because it leads to white girls fucking dirty niggers, that parts got to be ignored, but embrace the rest, even the shit that contradicts itself!
The entiere smear campaign started because of some rich white asshole losing money over timber that was to be made to paper, use stereo types and racial slurs and fear and asslinger bought right on and threw as much shit on that fire as possible.
So now you want us to follow gods word and reign in our country and be at peace and happy and joy?
When you fuckers start following hte words of your god, then you can preach to me about how its right and a good guide for life and the right way, till then your nothing but fucking arrogant, lying bullshit con artists that only preach what serves you best, what youv been spoon fed by parents and grandparents and the government with no real thought on your own.
You want all fo us to live by your fucking morals?
Tell ya what,
You fuckers first, when you can live by your own gods word, then we will talk about what you can tell me to do with my life and how wrong i am to live it as I see fit.

Quote: yet you fucking christians I'd just like to say not all of us Christian are like that... just the ones that give Christians a bad name, like Thor.

point taken.

I hate god?
bullshit.
I am saddened by the fact thaat I can not believe in a big invisible fairy in the high clouds who will welcome me after death and give me a new life in a perfect body.
Common sense and facts based on science prevent me from being ruled by fear by a invisible being. As I do not believe in a god, it makes it pretty hard for me (US) to hate him.
How do you hate things that do not exist?
wait wait wait...
terrorist in Iraq, prior to us invading that country... Your right we can hate things that do not exist!
Ok fuck it thats it I hate god.
Man you bastards were right! its easy to hate things that do not exist!

Well you still don't believe that humans evolved, so you're just as bad!

Originally Posted By: bobaliciousWell you still don't believe that humans evolved, so you're just as bad! LoL Though I might not believe we evolved from primates I do believe there is evolution... it's around us everyday and hard to deny.