The world is changing...

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Originally Posted By: unsupervised

You may feel that you are in decline but I am not in decline

Canada certainly is, as can be seen in that video. And since Canada is probably more full of liberal athiests than the US, the odds are you're going to feel the results of all this a lot sooner than we will.

Originally Posted By: IneligibleFor a different legal system to operate in a nation for some people, either the national government must have legislated for it, or they must have lost control...Or both...the second precedes the first. Quote:5. I had to laugh at "Someday, when those "nut jobs" are in the majority, a Muslim will hold a sword to your throat...maybe then you'll finally get the message." A sword??? A weapon that has not been more than ceremonial for a hundred years? Where does your idea of Muslims come from, thor? You must have missed the video of the US reporter who had his head cut off with a knife by Muslims. Yes, the sword (or knife) certainly is cerimonial...and is still used. But to be honest, my statement was more figurative than literal.

Originally Posted By: thor Originally Posted By: bobaliciousFor more than 50 years Christians have been trying to turn America into a Christian nation, something that is very backwards for a country that has so many different religions in it. Now the Christian fundamentalists are going ape-shit because they think Muslims are gonna do the same thing. For more than 50 years (more like 80) the liberal athiests in this country have been trying to bury the fact that this nation started out as a Christian nation...and have had some success, as we can see. Regardless, this Christian nation has always allowed any form of religion (or none at all) to be practiced...so long as you leave the rest of us to ours. Now the Muslims are trying to change that in every country they've "immigrated" to in sufficient numbers. That is the reality whether you choose to believe it or not. Thor, we've been over this time and time again, America did not start off as a Christian nation! The U.S. Constitution is a completely secular document, never once is Christianity or God mentioned in it. The United States started off as a secular nation with a majority Christian population. God only started appearing on money and in other places over a century after the country's formation!

Originally Posted By: thorFortunately for my sense of reality, I stopped living in the bubble a long time ago.Unfortunately for you, that bubble seemed to have been the only thing getting oxygen to your brain.

Originally Posted By: thor Originally Posted By: unsupervisedYou may feel that you are in decline but I am not in decline Canada certainly is, as can be seen in that video.Well, you obviously seemed to ignore Ineligible's post where he was able to refute many of the figures presented in that video. Not to mention that he actually used citation, something that that video was greatly in need of.And since Canada is probably more full of liberal athiests than the US, the odds are you're going to feel the results of all this a lot sooner than we will. [/quote]

Yeah, I know right?? :grin:

sdp:My apologies for before, for whatever reason, I skipped over your's and Jap's post...they weren't there, I swear! Now I'm going crazy, lol...

Pete: Thanks SOO much for those numbers. That just makes me....oh, discount it more...the narrator was a nice touch though...his voice dripping with DOOM and all...

Originally Posted By: bob

Well, you obviously seemed to ignore... Remember that lalalalala sound? I think I hear it again...don't you?

Originally Posted By: thor

Quote:

Religions don't seem to grow stronger over time, they tend to moderate.
Bullshit. Well if what you say is true, shouldn't EVERYTHING in the bible be upheld? Stoning people, not allowing women to talk back to men or teach, etc..? Because I see NONE of that happening...it seems to be a much more moderate practice now, than it was, for example, 2000 years ago...

Originally Posted By: thor

You must have missed the video of the US reporter who had his head cut off with a knife by Muslims. Yes, the sword (or knife) certainly is cerimonial...and is still used. But to be honest, my statement was more figurative than literal. So because of one incident which happened at the hands of extremists, you think that's what the whole people is like?

...same as it ever was.

[[In general, not so much directed, seeing as that last post was a reply to you, meaning you posted it in general...]]No, okay...I, as well as others I'm sure, enjoy talking with you. Me and bob agreed on that fact. You have the [opportunity] to shed light on very relevant things, but the trouble is, you give things that don't cite ANY facts, you ignore people that DO cite facts, you talk out of both sides of your mouth, and you present a quality of "I'm better than you so I don't need to listen to your crap.".If you would cite things, and give things from CNN and the like, and not just Joe's Down Home Bible Study News, or something like that, then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with anything you post. Even if you have something from Joe's, just back it up with, or support it with something from CNN or AP, like you had to in English class. One source isn't enough, most of the time.Just because someone has these issues with you, doesn't mean you can go call them an ostrich digging for worms....I'm not trying to berate, I'm just trying to explain MY discrepancies with you, is all. Please don't take it the wrong way.

Quote:this nation started out as a Christian nation. keep saying it and someone might think its true?Nope, sorry dude but I have to call bullshit on that.All this shit about christain europeans discovering america it total bullshit. There were already people here, remember? The euros didn't discover anything, they invaded.It's like as if I kicked down your front door and "discovered" your house. All my friends and I would move in and maybe form a commune. I know it's not in agreement with your beliefs and culture but I'm sure you'd adjust. If you're good, we'll let you live in the back of the basement for free. And if you can find one of our people who will give you a job, I promise you a long week end on my birthday.

Originally Posted By: unsupervised  Quote:this nation started out as a Christian nation. keep saying it and someone might think its true?Nope, sorry dude but I have to call bullshit on that.All this shit about christain europeans discovering america it total bullshit. There were already people here, remember? The euros didn't discover anything, they invaded.It's like as if I kicked down your front door and "discovered" your house. All my friends and I would move in and maybe form a commune. I know it's not in agreement with your beliefs and culture but I'm sure you'd adjust. If you're good, we'll let you live in the back of the basement for free. And if you can find one of our people who will give you a job, I promise you a long week end on my birthday. Sorry dude...you're going way off on a tangent here; probably because you already know the evidence backs up what I've already said. So without any facts to back your opinion up, I'm calling bullshit on you. I've provided evidence on the subject plenty of times over the years in many different threads...I've yet to see any from you; or from any of the other liberals for that matter. And that includes you, Ineligible.

Originally Posted By: thorSorry dude...you're going way off on a tangent here; probably because you already know the evidence backs up what I've already said. So without any facts to back your opinion up, I'm calling bullshit on you. I've provided evidence on the subject plenty of times over the years in many different threads...I've yet to see any from you; or from any of the other liberals for that matter. And that includes you, Ineligible. Excuse me? I believe I posted THIS just earlier today. And just in case you can't be bothered clicking that link, I'll just show you what it says. Originally Posted By: bobaliciousThor, we've been over this time and time again, America did not start off as a Christian nation! The U.S. Constitution is a completely secular document, never once is Christianity or God mentioned in it. The United States started off as a secular nation with a majority Christian population. God only started appearing on money and in other places over a century after the country's formation!So I repeat, America was NOT founded as a Christian nation.And I know we've discussed this before and I know that your typical argument is that it was based on Christian ideals. The only ideals that are Christian are ideals that existed long before Christianity and Judaism.

LMFAO
yep, no evidence that anyone lived in your sacred holy land before you showed up, none at all
Scotty... you are a figment of my imagination, sorry buddy
Also, your point that Islam is defined by the acts of a few extremist nuts goes both ways dude
This is what Christianity is... men in white hoods burning crosses and lynching niggers. Yep, I've seen it in the history books and that's all there is to the story. It's a religion based on pure evil.

thor, strident assertion does not constitute an argument. To carry on a debate it is necessary to understand what the other side is saying, and this you don't appear to do. For example, I showed that the video's data has no credibility, yet you continued to cite it as if it had - you just don't understand. If you point a gun at someone and fire it, if it is not loaded it's not an effective weapon, no matter what you believe. Reality matters. It's the same with an argument - if it has been unloaded it doesn't work. Quote:Regardless, this Christian nation has always allowed any form of religion (or none at all) to be practiced...so long as you leave the rest of us to ours. Now the Muslims are trying to change that in every country they've "immigrated" to in sufficient numbers.I dispute this claim. What evidence do you present? (Note: assertions are not evidence.)

Originally Posted By: Ineligible I dispute this claim. What evidence do you present? (Note: assertions are not evidence.)  Originally Posted By: thor Regardless, this Christian nation has always allowed any form of religion (or none at all) to be practiced...so long as you leave the rest of us to ours. Now the Muslims are trying to change that in every country they've "immigrated" to in sufficient numbers. As do I, because in which case, according to his video, then half the world should be run by Taliban!!! O_OI got your back on this one, Pete.I think after this, I'll give up with his "arguments", and just focus on others...

I think I should explain further.

1. In an argument or debate, what you are trying to do is to convince others. (If you are not trying to do that, but just set forth your view for the record, then it's not a debate.) Now to convince others, you must use methods and authorities that the others recognise. If I were trying to convince thor of something, I could validly use Biblical references, because thor accepts the authority of the Bible. But I would be wasting everyone's time quoting Biblical references to try to convince people who do not accept the Bible as an authority. Or I might believe that some source is a reliable source of information; but if my hearers do not agree, there is no point using it.

The same goes for method of argument. I might believe that repeating the same thing over and over again is a valid way of debating, but if my hearers do not, I am wasting my breath.

2. When you say "in every country", the statement can be disproved by finding just one counter-example - perhaps Turkey or Indonesia - where a Muslim majority does not suppress freedom of religion (at least, life for Christians there is no more uncomfortable than life for Muslims in the US).

a reasonable person would offer opinions as such and would debate facts with sources. Now, the are some facts that no one would ever feel the need to cite a source, such as the shape of the earth, the length of the day, the colour of the sky.With faith comes a blind belief in certain "facts". They are irrefutable and require no proof. Any facts that may disagree with those beliefs are not only irrelevant, they're basically invisible.

Originally Posted By: Ineligible Quote:Regardless, this Christian nation has always allowed any form of religion (or none at all) to be practiced...so long as you leave the rest of us to ours. Now the Muslims are trying to change that in every country they've "immigrated" to in sufficient numbers.I dispute this claim. What evidence do you present? (Note: assertions are not evidence.) Of all the folks on this board, I think your head is buried deeper in the sand than any of them. Look to many of the countries in Europe where Muslims and their beliefs are given special treatment, and where Sharia Law is allowed to supercede the laws of the nation in some instances. It's all right in front of your nose, and you refuse to see it. They will have to burn your house down before you pull your head out of your denial, I'm afraid. That's what it's going to take for a lot of Americans, though...so you'll have a lot of company, I'm sure.

I find this whole notion amusing. I thought it was the waves of Mexicans we were supposed to be afraid of, not the reproducing Muslims.

If these folks are so afraid Muslims are going to move in and out-populate the good solid Christian folk, then they better tear down that fence and start letting the Mexicans back in. Of course being brown may be worse than being Muslim, even if they are Christian. I don't know.

Originally Posted By: OldFolksI find this whole notion amusing. I thought it was the waves of Mexicans we were supposed to be afraid of, not the reproducing Muslims. It's the illegal Mexicans/Latins I'd like to see stay out. Bring the legal ones on in...the more the merrier. Latin girls are hot! Mexicans will gang-bang with others gangs, but if you leave them alone they'll largely leave you alone. Muslims are another matter...they're interested in converting everyone else to Islam or killing them. Those will be your two choices...convert or die. Says so in the Koran (their "bible"). Gone will be the freedom of religion in countries that they hold a majority in...as many a Christian living in a Muslim country will attest to. Right now, it's those we call "radicals" that are doing the damage...but their religious leaders have been slowly turning up the gain over the years. The percentage of "radicals" within the Muslim community is on the rise in France, Belgium, Germany and other european countries where the younger folks are being proselytized by the Imams sent there for this specific purpose. Only a fool would believe it will not ultimately come here to the US.

Well it seems you haven't stopped your stereotyping....Then can I see the numbers of these people that are being forced to convert? And I don't want to be told "it's all over, find it yourself", you show me. Only then, I'll start to take you seriously. If it's "convert or die", then I would assume that NY would be in mass hysteria, given the amount of Muslim or Islamic/Middle East cab drivers...It also says in Christian bibles, as many of have stated many times, plenty of ridiculous things that either aren't allowed today, or simply aren't practiced today.>>To tell you the truth, right now, I'm more worried about water, power, the fact that most states' budgets, let alone the gov't's, are in the toilet, there are serial killers abound (see NC/SC/GA area), and things that are of much more current, and apparent, threat.