Gay Married.... How to keep wife satisfied?

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Sorry, my post wasn't direct at you just the thread in general.

No worries, this is discussing feelings and emotions and ideas and ideals, friends dont always share identical ones.so long as we are discussing and arguing like adults I dont take offense to new data and ideas and suggestions being injected into the conversation, that indeed is part of the process for a successful discussion.carry on with out feeling impeded or that you need to save my feelings. None of your points or attacks are personal or aimed at hurting in a lashing out. Your simply defending your ideas and ideals.

you are a true gentleman, Old Folks! thank you.

Originally Posted By: GrvtykllrI think he is wrong to believe its a disorder, Java did research on that a while back, its shown and nearly proven that its a gene that carries the gay/bisexual feelings. It is a handicap to living life in a society that deems it a sin and a choice, that i agree on.Chance, it is in that sense that I call it a handicap. I couldn't care less where it came from, what counts is that it impedes me from living the way that I want to live.

If your committed to the idea of being married, and no argument or data will get you past that, then I urge you to be honest with your chosen wife. Talk to a shrink first maybe, talk to a therapist, talk to anyone who has something to say instead of just kicking you in the nuts telling you you have a disease and can be cured and if you dont get over it your going to burn in hell forever.Java was working on sex shit a while back in genetics. Shes shown me photos fo genes that suggest its not a choice, its not a decision that we get to make, it is what it is and what it is is you. As to helping you satisfy a partner your not really sexually interested in, I cant help there, I dont know how to work up a boner when Im just not really wanting to use it.OldFolks is a smart son of a bitch, and he has a better grasp on this shit I think being as he is bisexual. THe only thing I can tell you is to urge you to follow his suggestions in dealing with it. Seek out help outside of this board, from someone whos been trained in handling shit along these lines. Dont feel trapped and know that some place there is help, there is something to put you more at ease. If you can locate that help maybe after a period of time you can bring in teh prospective wife and have her sit in on the conversation, explain to her the problems in a more friendly environment than just at home alone or on a date at some coffee shop or a picnic in the park.There are women out there that are willing to do what you seek, but I think you will find that they are few and far between.I honestly wish you the best of luck in being happy, noone should have to suffer because of who they are inside.

point taken.

As much as it goes against every fiber of my being and as much as I don't believe it to be in your long term best interest have you tried reading any books like Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality: A New Clinical Approach, by Joseph Nicolosi.You can do a search, there are tons of books out there like that.

Originally Posted By: RadecklDo you have sex therapist where you live?That might be an option on her sexual satisfaction, but keep in mind that there are many people for whom sex is a very minor part of their lives and is of no consequence when compared to everything else. Yes, we do, Rad, and I have sought help. I am willing to do ANYTHING, absolutely anything to make it work, except stand up and say "I am gay". Not out of "cowardice" as some have put it, but because I do not even believe it is relevant. I do not think that any two indivduals are exactly alike, and it does not help to categorize people in ways that will stifle their abilities or potentials more than help them be what they want to be. In my case, it would do much more harm than good as you guys might think.

I believe it may harm the relationship with the woman, in fact if you already have a girl in mind to marry I think it could kill the relationship all together.
I dont think anyone would argue against that being the case.
but if you insist on having a woman, shouldnt you be with one that loves you for who you are and know the truth?
my fiance knows every detail about me, the only thing she doesnt knwo is how many girls I had before her, and I am missing the same info about her.
We decided it was far better for us both to keep that info from the other. Outside of that we are very open about feelings, wants and wishes and waht it is we like in bed.
Im simply suggesting that maybe you can find a girl that would be ok with your beig gay, and still be able to overcome that and be with you in an honest relationship.

I wanted so hard to stay out of this whole thread because it actually upsets me personally. But Jase you need to truly listen to everyone in this thread as they have given you some valuable information. The person I agree with the most would probably be Star as she put my feelings pretty dead on.Main reason I am upset with this whole thread is someone basically calling me “handicapped” because I’m gay. I’m proud of who I am, and it has nothing to do with my sexuality. Me being gay is such a small part of who I am just as it’s a small part of a heterosexual man. I’d be damned is someone tried to make me feel as though I’m handicapped simply because I love someone of the same gender. Matter-of-fact if I lived in a society where I could not be who I am, I’d be moving. I would never deny part of who I am just to please another person, nor would I take someone down with me as I fake to be something I am not. Mentally it’s not worth it in the end. The whole religious side of this whole topic throws my head against the wall. God is about love and understanding, not about hate and lies. God would rather you be who you are and love someone unconditionally than to lie and deceive another person into marriage where the feeling are not reciprocated 100%. I just don’t understand where you can think lying to this woman is acceptable but being whom you are is so condemnable. As other have said, if you are going to marry this woman you need to be 100% honest and open with her and let her decide if this is something she wants to compete against. It’s the only right thing you can do. I know you said another reason you want to marry a female is because you want a family. Homosexual couples can have a femily just about as easy as heterosexual couples. With modern day science it’s not unheard of now for gay men to have a surrogate mother carry a child. Even away from that there is adoption; there are so many kinds in the system that need a loving and caring family. I myself am starting to do the paper work through the local adoption agency so I can have a family of my own. I also hope to some day find a surrogate mother so I can also have child of my own genetics. Anyways just my perspective on things. I truly hope you get therapy before you even consider marry this woman. And get an impartial therapist; meaning not a therapist through the church or a therapist who has it in his or her mind they can “zap” the homosexuality out of you. You need someone who can be impartial and give you true therapy without and prejudices.

NtroducingMyself: thank you for your input, and star's. whether it's starfish or virtual star, i don't know. but your system of "right and wrong" and frames of reference are totally incongruent with mine, so i am afraid that your suggestions while fully respected, are not really relevant to my case.please note my response to Chance above where i explained my use of the word "handicap", lest it continues to upset you.regards.

You really have some issues that need to be sorted out. I said it before, but I hope no women is ever stupid enough to even think about marrying you.

That's not really necessary, LTTA... The problem with many is that they are not in his shoes and can't see things from his perspective and situation.And there are women who will marry out of convenience and have no desire for sex. I saw a program, I believe it was 20/20, where the married couple is celibate. They are asexual and have no need for sex. Being a couple is not a problem for them.

Originally Posted By: Jase

whether it's starfish or virtual star, i don't know.
He's referring to Starfish. Clearly, she's been more helpful than I have.

Since I'm replying, I want to say that I'm sorry for my last post. I should've realized you said "lots of women", and not "all". Pardon my rudeness.

All in all, I think the bottom line for you to do is to talk to your soon to be wife and see if she's open to the idea of marrying you, knowing you're gay. Like others said, it's not impossible and you've said so yourself.

Jase, I agree with you that marriage is more than just sex. The mutual support, being a combined team, is certainly more important. A marriage without sex is possible, but without mutual support it could hardly continue. However I think you underestimate the effect on most women, at least in Western cultures, if they discover you are not attracted to them in the way they believed. It is more than feeling deceived, it is the feeling that the bottom has fallen out of their emotional world. They do not believe that the only consideration in marriage is loyalty and devotion.In some cultures this would matter less. In cultures where marriages are arranged, people take a different and more pragmatic view of marriage. The important thing is to be sure that you and your wife are of the same mind, and I think this is far from easy.

Originally Posted By: Ineligible... it is the feeling that the bottom has fallen out of their emotional world. They do not believe that the only consideration in marriage is loyalty and devotion.well put, ineligible. sad, but true.

I am extremely saddened at the way the people here are making you feel. EXTREMELY.I put my input in ONCE. That is STILL what I think.. I come here almost everyday.. I have not continued to post.. not continued to push you to not marry this woman. I gave you my input and hoped that you would take what I said into consideration. I am disappointed in all the people who have PUSHED and fought and hurt you in this thread.On behalf of them Jase, I apologize.

Originally Posted By: Jase

Why would you not have a loftier purpose to your life that you strive to accomplish, than to revolve in the orbit of this mortal being?

Firstly; you have no idea what I strive to accomplish or what I regard the purpose of my life to be Jase; I have a very clear sense of that actually, which I am not going to discuss here as it is very personal to me. I can't imagine why you'd presume to know that either, to be honest.

The reason why I have reacted so strongly in opposition to your marrying is this:

Originally Posted By: Jase

How do gay guys married TO WOMEN have sex with their wives? (some married men are actually gay, right? and they are able to keep their "secret" for years and have kids with their wives)

Here, you have clearly laid out in your very first post your intention to deliberately deceive, i.e. keep your "secret" from the person you intend to be your partner through life. You intend to base your marriage on a lie before it even begins. That is why I object strongly; I would not object in any way, shape or from if you intended to be honest with her, because in that case you would be giving the woman involved the right to make an informed choice, which she fully deserves, and if she chose to marry you in the full knowledge of what she was marrying into the situation would be fair and not involving any deceit; but this is NOT what you are planning; you are planning the opposite, and, in defence of that, this is a weak and paltry excuse:

Originally Posted By: Jase

I agree, but in my culture/religion, homosexuality is not a subject of discussion AT ALL. So, HOW can you bring this subject up?

Of course homosexuality is discussed in your religion and culture. The difference is it is condemned rather than condoned and for that reason you'd prefer to pretend that it: "is not a subject of discussion AT ALL", as you say, but you and I and anyone else with half a wit of sense knows that is not the truth. You have just laid out in your last post to me a scriptural passage from Genesis which discusses it, so obviously your religion itself discusses it, and discusses it in a negative and condemnatory light, which, by the way, proves nothing to me other than that homophobia is as old as the first book of the Bible itself.

You said that you were posting: "to get advice on how to expedite that change in my preferences". If that were all you were asking Jase, you would have gotten a very differently toned response from me, but this is not just about you; your plans and desires are NOT the only ones that matter here.

You spoke about the importance of loyalty and devotion in marriage and maintained that they are the ONLY requirements. I agree that they are essential elements, no doubt about that, but I do not agree that they are the "only" ones. It may be true FOR YOU that "loyalty and devotion" are the only considerations in marriage, but to assume the same is true for your wife is to disregard the spirit of marriage itself, which is about each party having equal respect and regard for the considerations which are relevant to the other. If, in addition to loyalty and devotion, complete honesty is relevant for your wife (and you can be certain that it will be -- I've yet to meet a woman who enjoys being lied to by her husband) and you choose to decide for the both of you that her considerations are not relevant, then your marriage is not worth the paper that confirms it and is doomed to fail before it begins.

To be honest, and I'm not trying to be cruel here, but I really do believe that a mindset which disregards what is relevant to a significant other disables a person in their capacity to form a lasting relationship, never mind a life-long marriage. You need to have equal regard for a wife's considerations, and you have clearly expressed that you do not have that; that yours are the only ones of relevance, and I do not for the life of me see how you can build a marriage on a foundation like that.

Originally Posted By: Jase

..you seem to be living with a "partner", whom you did not call your husband, for 6 years. A vast majority of women around the world, however, do not particularly sign up for your standards on morals, and would rather be married to a gay man or to share a husband with other women, than to live for a single day with a straight man to whom they are not wed. So, do not judge others lest you be judged yourself.

"A vast majority of women around the world"? Are you seriously appointing yourself to speak for the "vast majority" of 3-Billion-plus people?? I think it's clear to see that's more than a bit presumptuous on your part!

Also, in light of what you're planning, I really don't think you're in a position to teach me anything about "standards on morals". As for my relationship: I have not described my partner as my husband because we have not yet signed sheets of paper recognised by courts nor swapped metal circular objects; I have not described him as my friend because he is much more than that; I have not described him as my lover because he is so much more than that; I have described him as my partner because we are two people who have wilfully, independently and in full possession of the facts, chosen to share in our lives together in a spirit of truth, honesty and love; an amalgamation you have chosen to deny yourself, or rather, allow religion and societal pressure to deny for you. That is your loss, but also your choice: I just feel sorry for the woman you deem must also suffer the same loss, minus the privilege you yourself have but intend to deny her, which is that of choice.

Originally Posted By: Jase

So, the talk of deception and lack of honesty is arguably baseless beyond the fact that only he knew beforehand that it would be difficult, unless and until that gay man actually betrays his wife. Wherever his mind and his fantacies wander are not a fault of his own.

Well, since you say the Bible is your moral handbook, maybe you'll want to direct your attention towards the Gospels here. They are pretty clear on what Jesus taught regarding sinning of the heart. Jase, I have to tell you; your attitude here reminds me of a lot of 'religious' people and groups I've come across who cherry-pick what suits them from the Bible and disregard what does not. It's a very disingenuous approach towards religion, in my opinion.

Originally Posted By: pinkranger4On behalf of them Jase, I apologize. Pinkranger, I think you are a very sweet-natured young woman, but I also think it is very presumptuous of you to apologise on anyone’s behalf but your own. I do not appreciate your apologising on my behalf because I have no apologies to make, and if and when I do, I am more than capable of making them myself. Thank you.

Originally Posted By: pinkranger4I am extremely saddened at the way the people here are making you feel. EXTREMELY.I put my input in ONCE. That is STILL what I think.. I come here almost everyday.. I have not continued to post.. not continued to push you to not marry this woman. I gave you my input and hoped that you would take what I said into consideration. I am disappointed in all the people who have PUSHED and fought and hurt you in this thread.On behalf of them Jase, I apologize. Pinkranger4: Yours was the sweetest and most comforting contribution that I have hoped to receive, hands down. Thank you so much for your support, thoughfulness and open mindedness, and your apology on behalf of all of those who matter is accepted and appreciated.