I think Aquinas was talking about the fall of Adam, and sinful behavior. "God judged it better to bring good out of evil, than to allow no evil to exist.If you ask the average Christian on the street why innocent people are often the victim of evil people, Christian would likely say that goodnes would have no meaning without badness, and that without evil, people wouldn't know what righteousness is.But what about bad things that aren't related to sin (unless you consider them punishment for sin), such as floods, earthquakes, tidal waves, automobile accidents, and having wayward ordnance blow up your house? In other words, what is the purpose of random calamities?
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Cutting
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simplified Zen... there is no good, there is no bad, there just is.
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In reply to:If you ask the average Christian on the street why innocent people are often the victim of evil people, Christian would likely say that goodnes would have no meaning without badness, and that without evil, people wouldn't know what righteousness is.I can't see that as a satisfactory reason. It would not have held in prelapsarian Paradise, nor would it hold in the new heaven and earth.The concept that good can come from bad does not mean that bad is good. Bad is bad, and not ordained by God.Concerning calamities as punishments for sin, see Luke 13:1-5.
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and here we go again. No good without evil, no light without dark... bla bla bla.
Everything happens for a reason, not because it's god's will or some kind of lesson to learn.
cause and effect. Don't like the effect, fix the cause.
Or, if you prefer, remain blameless because it was all up to god. You choose (I have) -
"Everything happens for a reason" blah blah determinism blah blah.
But does everything happen for a purpose?
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In reply to: does everything happen for a purpose? hmmmmm, 2 words with slightly different meanings. Not very different though. One being the engine, the other being the destination (depending on the definition you choose)
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Yep, I agree.
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Reson: cause and effect (plus or minus quantum effects).Purpose: the fulfillment of some higher purpose (e.g., a diety's wish).
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i happen to be catholic,so you got alot of nerve attacking my faith in that way! i sure dont do that to you,and to answer your question,there is evil and this world,because human being is corrupt,good can come from evil,but thats only cause God has mercy to not let us die in our chaos.the reason theres depression and suffering all over the world is because humans dont know how to love,and dont know whats right and wrong.i didnt say that depression was good,because i know its bad,but that good can come from bad if we allow it,i think you need understanding
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i sure dont do that to youFeel free. Wait a minute...you did.Who corrupted humans? I don't believe that's true. Why would God create such defective beings? If so, he should have the wisdom to fix things; that's what you'd do for the children that you love.
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if god worked for me, I would have fired her by now (I think her references might have lied)
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In reply to:
"im glad owl you asked these questions,ill try to answer them,it has nothing to do with goth at all,im not goth,im more emo,goth cut them selves for show,emo kids cut themselves to get rid of pain.if youve never cut yourself then you cant understand.its when were very emotionally hurt,by parents or friends, we take something sharp,usually a blade or a knife.and cut ourselves on our arms,ive done it about 25 times,usually small scars,but once i gashed my arm open and i had to lie to my mom about it,yes it focuses the pain on your arm and numds out the heartache,also the adrinilin rush is like a comfort and you get in a stupifcial feeling,i usually do it in silence,and its very spiritual for me,being more or less a christian,i do like music like The Used,Underoath,Dead Poetic,Emery, Hawthorne Heights, Silverstein anything emo/srceamo. "
Gothic people cut themselves and show it off? Emo is notorious for people cutting as a fashion statement. All the gothic people I know hang around in grave yards and are really satanic and shit. I don't know any of them that cut themselves because of depression. All the emo people I know cry loads and tell you their life story and I'm like eeeer I don't even know you really and cut themselves. Especially when they get drunk, Jesus then it all comes out and you never hear the end of it.
You say you're depressed yet you claim you are emo which is a pretty depressive lifestyle orientated around heartbreak and things like that. Emo people make a mockery of cutting yourself and make people sound like whiney pussies for doing it. Cutting yourself is a real problem not some dumb fassion statement for some shitty music about girlfriends and being a loner at school and your parents making you feel silly.
One band actually released a cd with a free razor with it. Yeah I would say that's pretty much implying that emo music is to do with cutting. Emo has made the fact I used to cut myself in the past fucking miserable. I did it out of anger and depression because my life was horrible. It all started when one day I took one of those security labels apart and accidentally cut myself with the sharp metal inside. I then for some bizarre reason slashed all my fingertips with it and it releaved stress some how and made me feel somewhat better. Now I have to wear sweat bands on my forearms and bracelets on my wrists to cover up my scars. I can't take off my shirt for fear of being made fun of because people think people who cut are emo pussies so yeah now thanks to people like you I look like an attention seeking bastard. People are like what happened to your arms and I have to be like "I used to work on a building site and the glass on the windows we fitted used to cut me a lot" or shit like that. Emo has ruined any self esteem I ever had and ever will. I have been working out but sometimes wonder is I should because it will draw attention to my arms. Cutting is one of my biggest regrets and emo people and music make my life harder than it already is. One of my best friends had the same problem and he can't wear short sleeved shirts because his scars are so bad. He used to gash the whole length of his arm and fall asleep bleeding on a towel. His scars are insane and razed like a centimeter and seriously go down the whole length of his arm and he has hundreds. I would say THAT'S a serious problem not something shit like "my girlfriend dumped me and now my teenage life is over so I'm going to cut myself to ease the pain" kind of thing.
I didn't have to be told by some shitty band or anyone else to cut I did it because it made me feel better at the time. I didn't even know anyone else did it at the time even, I thought I was a freak and that people would laugh if they found out.
It's kind of good to get all that out because I haven't told anyone about it really. But yeah "august winterman" emo is so great isn't it, its made my life shitter than it needs to be and made a mockery of hundreds of peoples serious problems around the globe. Because like you said "emo people don't cut for attention" bull shit. That's the biggest pile of shit I have EVER heard. I hate emo so much, its made it so I'm so self conscious about my cuts. I am always pulling my sleeves down every time they rise up a little just incase someone sees my scars. Cutting ruins lives.
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I'm a self injurer. I love talking about it, but afraid to do so. I kinda helps to talk about it. It's just that I'd hate to think about what everyone would think about me if they knew that I cut myself. I was discovered by three friends, one has been very helpful, another is depressed and has been hospitalized after an attempt on her own life, and the last is a recovered depressed who cut herself for 6 years or so. The last person in that list has been the most helpful. I've cut myself for a very long time before knowing them, and had no clue that anyone else at my school cut until I met them. I thought I was insane, because I smiled and laughed after I did it. After visiting some sites my friend recommend, I found that it was normal. Chemical endorphins, like a sprinters high.
Anyhoo... let me see if I can help you, HelmsmaN:
In reply to:
Could someone please explain to me why??
For me, it's about tknowing that I have some outlet, someway to rid myself of all this pent up emotion. I can't talk to anyone, for fear of looking like some 'emo kid wuss,' I'm not a good writer, I can't play guitar, and for some reason I can't cry. At all. I do this thing called dry crying when I breakdown, where I get the heavy and rapid breathing, curl up into a fetal position and sob with out the tears. It's about then that I get an urge to cut myself.
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why would someone slice the shit out of themselves? Is it to show off the scars later, and proudly proclaim, "lookie what I did!"
Fuck no! I would hate anyone finding out that I have scars. I wear high-socks at basketball games, and I wear wristbands to hide the ones on the wrist. The shoulder heals quicker than normal, and I've started to do it on my upper thigh so that people can't see. I've had my parents see them before and made up the weakest excuse ever just so they wouldn't find out. I hate every single scar on my body, but each time I tell myself I'm going to stop, I end up coming back to it within a matter of days.
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I mean , do all the "cutter kids" get together at lunch and compare scars, or what?
I don't know that many "cutter kids," but the ones I do know are as ashamed as fuck about their scars
In reply to:
Is more scars better?
quick answer: No
In reply to:
Like trying to be more Goth than the next guy??
I'm not goth, but I do know that being a goth does not require you to cut yourself
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I just don't get it....and I've been through a lot of shit in my lifetime, but never ever once wanted to cut myself on purpose......what's the deal?
I know a shit load of people like you, and it's understandable. No one but the cutters get it. All I ask you to do is to be considerate of us. If you ever catch someone, just remind them your their for them. Whatever you do, don't accuse them of attention seeking.
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Please someone hip me to the skip, because I've been a wonderin' about this for a while now.
I guess you're welcome. I hope I helped you a little.
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I beleive that self mutilation is tied to an instinct. Animals, for example, when highly stressed, will gnaw themselves raw, and pull out their own hair. It is a way of releaving stress from your body through pain. Stress that needs to be gotten rid of because it puts strain on the animal's body and impairs it's functionality and life-span. As for me, while I do suffer from some depression, and have suffered rom manic epression in the past, I have never intentionaly cut myself or contemplated suicide.
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i am a cutter...the reason i cut it's because i don't know how to deal with my emotions... depression, loneliness, insecurity, etc....it's the feeling that trapped deep inside... it drives me crazy... if i don't somehow express it out, i would be insane... and i don't want to hurt other ppl, so i take it on myself...i been trying to stop cutting... however, i always find it the best, easiest way to calm myself down.. it's like a knock in the head when u need to clear ur head... but cutting is just another way... the longest time i ever live without cutting is 5 months... everynow and then i would put a cut on the wrist... the worst cut i have made me visit the hospital and got 3 stiches... i was 14 and that was when my parents decided to send me to a theropist...when i moved out of my homecountry... ppl here don't have theropist... so, i am have to be constantly happy... but every now and then i get depressed... anyway, it's part of my life... i don't think it would stop....oh, by the way, i don't hide my scars... but it's not like i am an attention whore... i hate when ppl show off their scars... it's something personal... i don't mind share the story behind each scars... but it's not like i will go out, roll up my sleeves or pull up my wrist band and talk to anyone...
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I cut, I mean I used to. I was talking to my therapist about it and he said that many times becuase people were hurt or betrayed they get really angry. The anger they feel they can't act out so they act on themselves by cutting. So instead of yelling back at their parents they sort of give up, retreat in themselves and hurt themselves. I hope I'm not repeating what anyone else has said.
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Who do you think you are? Do you really think you understand depression more than anyone else? You may be a depressed person, surviving years and years of darkness. You may be a psychotherapist, analysing everyone you come in contact with. But never say you know more about depression than the next person. Your depression is YOUR depression. Being depressed/suicidal or a professor/author on human psyche does not make you an expert. Depression affects different people in different ways. An old friend of mine was depressed for a week (A WEEK!), and she shot herself... I've been depressed for 21 years, in and out of hospitals, institutions, and therapist offices and I will never claim to know more about depression than ANYONE.
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Yeah, me... I completely agree... NO ONE KNOWS MORE ABOUT DEPRESSION THAN ANYONE ELSE... yeah, it may be a physical thing... it may be a bi-polar thing... it may be that you feel like you've been handed a pile of shit and told to eat it for the rest of your worthless life... But, if anyone (ANYONE) can tell me why I've been so depressed... why I've been cutting myself, swallowing downers by the dozens, drinking and swimming with a friggan purpose, using my own friggan apnea machine to try suffocating myself in my sleep, eating a little pressure-treated wood everyday, breaking off lead under my skin, looking for a way out every day, every night... If any of you so-called 'experts' can tell me why I feel like this all the time... I'll bow down to your wisdom, Oh Great One.
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possum. i think your crazy! you act like you understand everything! were not like that and just because youve had bad experirnces with cutter dont mean were all like that! this is carzy i dont go sob to anyone,or show off my scars,i dont know anyone who does! this is total shit.were depressed and you dont understand it,i dont understand others depression,i may relate,but were all different.its not fair to accuse us like that!cutting is a cure,not some fucked up fashion,i hide my scars not showthem off,and i wish i didnt cut,i fear my parents finding out and going to therapy and crap,i wish i wasnt depressed i wish i was happy,your so messed up man...
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In reply to:oh, by the way, i don't hide my scarsAny suggestions on how to be not self-conscious? I hate it when anyone asks about any scar of mine, regardless of weather I did it or not.
